Chapter 153: Coarse

"Is the Ship of Salvation still the Ship of Salvation?"

By the edge of the Dao field, a monk, naked to the waist in the heavy snow, held two wooden drumsticks, lightly beating a leather drum, his eyes fierce like a Vajra.

Outside the Dao field, inside a bronze censer, a small Daoist in a blue robe burned a stick of tall incense. One stick of tall incense was one hour. If the answerer couldn't answer before the incense burned out, they had to concede, and the next person would answer.

The drum stopped, the bell rang, and people moved.

Among the monks, a young monk who had been sitting quietly with his eyes closed opened his eyes, holding a mala, and looked towards the Dao field.

Heavy snow fell, and he saw only Chen Ji sitting quietly on a cushion.

A gust of wind from outside the mountain village came, rolling light snow powder that fell on his shoulders, head, and knees, but he did not move.

The young monk softly said, "Bodhisattva lowers his eyebrows."

Having said that, he closed his eyes again, quietly fingering his mala.

On the stone steps by the edge of the Dao field, literati, gray-robed monks, and blue-robed Daoists silently watched the young man on the Dao field. They discussed and exchanged ideas with each other.

A small Daoist on the stone steps scratched his head and said, "Senior Brother Zhang Li, I think the Ship of Salvation is, of course, no longer that Ship of Salvation."

Another small Daoist said, "That's not right, it's still that Ship of Salvation."

"It's not that simple, let's hear how the monks answer..."

Zhang Li stared directly at Chen Ji's back, not daring to answer the question rashly for a moment.

At this moment, inside the Dao field, the monk on the cushion slowly opened his mouth: "The Ship of Salvation is no longer the Ship of Salvation. The *Platform Sutra* says that the original meaning of sentient beings is self-nature, which is the soul, and the original meaning of insentient beings is object image, commonly speaking, it is constituent parts. Changing the ship boards of this Ship of Salvation is equal to changing the object image. When the object image changes, the Ship of Salvation is naturally no longer the Ship of Salvation."

On the steps by the edge of the Dao field, some people nodded, some shook their heads.

Zhang Xia, supporting Bai Li, stood to the side, his eyebrows tightly furrowed.

Shi Zi asked curiously, "Why are you frowning so tightly?"

Zhang Xia hesitated and said, "I've watched dozens of debates, and this is the first time I've seen a question with so many differing opinions. Look, even those monks may not agree with their third senior brother's viewpoint."

Shi Zi said boredly, "This kind of debate is all empty talk, it all depends on who can quibble better, it's of no benefit to the common people."

Zhang Xia still frowned and did not speak.

The debate had a referee. The crowd's gazes were cast towards the literati on the stone steps. A middle-aged man in a Confucian robe shook a copper bell in his hand once and said loudly, "Questioner, do you have an answer?"

As soon as the words fell, Chen Ji lowered his eyelids, not lifting his head, and opened his mouth to ask, "Then if I only change a single ship board, which is also changing the object image, is the Ship of Salvation still the Ship of Salvation?"

The monk was startled: "This..."

He furrowed his brows and thought bitterly, recalling the sutras to support himself.

But time passed bit by bit, that stick of tall incense burned shorter and shorter, and the monk was still tongue-tied.

*Dong* a sound.

Someone by the edge of the field struck a wooden fish.

The monk on the cushion suddenly woke up: "Wait, the Ship of Salvation is still the Ship of Salvation, I..."

Chen Ji calmly said, "Go down."

The young man's words landed with a sound, leaving no room for doubt.

The debate was opened with a clear statement of one's viewpoint; one could not change it again. If one wanted to change it, a different person had to come.

The small Daoist beside the large bell in the Dao field had an excited look, pushed aside the small novice guarding the wooden strike, and pulled the wooden strike heavily towards the copper bell.

The copper bell's sound was melodious and went far, shattering the monk's drum sound.

The literati from Jiangnan looked at each other, sizing up Chen Ji in the field, and asked in a low voice, "Who is this young man?"

"I don't know. Perhaps it's a young master from some family who doesn't go out much?"

"Doesn't look like it, look at his clothing..."

The monk on the cushion slipped away sadly, leaving the Dao field.

A moment later, Yuan Jue Temple changed a monk, who sat firmly on the cushion and said, "The Ship of Salvation is still the Ship of Salvation. The *Great Prajna Sutra* says that the essence of insentient beings is its structure, purpose, and use. Although the materials of the Ship of Salvation may change, its structure and purpose do not, so it is still it."

Chen Ji still didn't utter a word. The other side's answer seemed right, and yet it also seemed not right.

After a long silence, the monk was no longer as confident as before. He subconsciously looked towards the group of monks.

Zhang Li was about to say something when he saw Chen Ji turn his head and look at him intently, his eyes not moving.

Zhang Li hesitated for a long time, suddenly understanding Chen Ji's meaning.

He chuckled helplessly and handed the gourd-shaped white porcelain bottle to Bai Li: "He's already won one person down, this pill is for you."

Bai Li was startled: "He?"

Zhang Li urged: "Quickly eat it, quickly eat it. Don't you see he's still waiting? He won't open his mouth until he sees you eat the pill and get better. This boy."

Zhang Xia quickly took the pill and handed it to Bai Li to take. In an instant, Bai Li's complexion returned to normal, and he no longer needed support.

Zhang Li looked at Chen Ji, his mouth forming the silent shape of words: "Good, isn't it?"

The monk on the cushion also urged: "Young man, do you still have anything to say?"

Chen Ji saw Bai Li get better, and only then turned his head, looking towards the monk on the cushion: "If I take down all the wooden boards of the Ship of Salvation, every single part, and reassemble them into one ship, is this ship not the Ship of Salvation?"

The monk was startled: "This..."

Nearly half of the literati by the edge of the field stood up one after another, drawing out their silk handkerchiefs from their sleeves and throwing them into the field: "Wonderful!"

In the way of debate, if the audience by the edge of the field found something wonderful, they would throw out their handkerchiefs. The more handkerchiefs thrown, the more supporters there were.

At this moment, amidst the cheers of hundreds of people, Chen Ji suddenly perceived that the fifty-six lantern fires within him jumped again, brighter again, almost turning from faint red to light yellow.

The small Daoists looked at each other, quite bewildered, "Senior brother, does this count as a win?"

Zhang Li by the edge of the field breathed a long sigh: "The problem the young man presented, easy to think about the debate at the beginning, difficult to debate at the end, attacking and defending both, it's all a paradox."

The monk on the cushion thought bitterly about the sutras, wanting to find Buddha's words to support his viewpoint, but thought and could not find any.

Finally, he cast a pleading gaze towards the group of monks by the edge of the field, but no one dared to come forward to respond again.

In the wind and snow, on the stone steps, that young monk who had always sat quietly fingering his mala slowly stood up and walked into the middle of the Dao field.

The literati by the edge of the field gradually quieted down. Some people said in a low voice, "This obscure and unknown person has actually shocked Wu Zhai into entering the field to debate again."

Wu Zhai used the hand holding the mala to pat the shoulder of the monk on the cushion: "Go down. This question, I will answer."

The monk on the cushion was startled, looked up aggrievedly, and said, "Senior brother, I..."

Wu Zhai held the mala in his hand, smiling gently: "No harm."

He sat down on the cushion, but did not rush to answer the question. Instead, his thumb lightly fingered the mala three times.

Zhang Xia said in a low voice, "This person is Wu Zhai, the first disciple of Yuan Jue Temple. He debated with the Dao Court when he was twelve years old, and in seven years, he has won away all the fields of the Dao Courts and Dao Observatories near the capital. Now there isn't even one Dao Observatory in the capital."

Shi Zi was astonished: "This is a monk cultivated by Buddhism from a young age, specially used to win away the Dao Court's properties."

Zhang Li: ......

Zhang Xia looked at the mala in Wu Zhai's hand and said, "I observed his debate before. He once said himself that fingering the mala once moves nine hundred thoughts. He is now selecting the best angle to win before opening his mouth."

Shi Zi curled his lips: "What kind of nonsense is he talking!"

Zhang Li chuckled in agreement: "Exactly, what kind of nonsense is he talking!"

At this time, the Dao field quieted down, waiting for Wu Zhai to finger the mala for the fourth time. He spoke flatly and steadily: "The Ship of Salvation is already no longer the Ship of Salvation. The *Benevolent King Prajna Sutra* says that one finger snap is sixty moments, and between moments are nine hundred births and deaths. When time is slow enough, you will see that all things in the world are like particles, born, die, and reassemble in a moment. After one thought, you are no longer you, and the Ship of Salvation is no longer the Ship of Salvation."

Wu Zhai smiled and said, "People cannot step into the same river twice. Whether you change or not, after one thought, you are no longer you, and the Ship of Salvation is also no longer the Ship of Salvation."

Zhang Li cursed in a low voice, "Damn, the monk wants to cheat."

Shi Zi was puzzled: "How do you say that?"

Zhang Li explained: "This is the essence of Buddhism's 'no self.' It speaks of letting go of all dharmas and all attachments to self. If according to this Buddhist doctrine, all things in the world cease to exist after a moment and are all newly born, they stand on invincible ground."

The literati stood up one after another, and again half the people threw the handkerchiefs in their sleeves into the field.

Everyone looked towards Chen Ji.

The tall incense in the bronze censer slowly burned out. A monk looked towards the small novice beside him: "Still not hitting the bell? This round, Buddhism wins."

However, Chen Ji finally lifted his head and looked calmly towards Wu Zhai, "Since there is no self, then who is in *samsara*? Who needs liberation?"

Wu Zhai was startled.

Zhang Li suddenly stood up.

Since there is no self, who is in *samsara*? Who needs liberation?

The final sword was hidden here.

No self and self – this is the logical foundation that Buddhism has always failed to clarify for thousands of years, directly pointing to the root of Buddhism.

It's not that the high monks of Buddhism truly couldn't explain it, but that they couldn't say it.

Buddhism preaches 'no self' to avoid pursuing past lives and present lives, to let go of all dharmas.

However, the words Buddhism uses to induce secular believers are merit, fame, and fortune, cause and effect, *samsara*, and *karma*, in which there is a self.

For example, cultivating good deeds so as not to fall into evil paths or animal paths, cultivating blessings for the next life – this is for the 'I'.

These are originally two sets of things.

Zhang Li excitedly rubbed his hands, "Wu Zhai can't answer."

Shi Zi asked: "Is this question very difficult?"

Zhang Li's gaze was bright: "Wu Zhai isn't that he won't answer, but that he cannot answer. Many people came to this literary meeting, and the process of the debate will certainly be spread by word of mouth. If he says that no self is right, that is admitting that the 'samsara and blessing' propagated by his Buddhism is just a means to fool believers and control believers. They themselves don't even believe this."

He sighed: "Attack the root, kill the heart."

Wu Zhai looked towards Chen Ji, feeling only that the eyes of this young man opposite him were like jumping fires.

Chen Ji asked: "Does Buddhism still have a person who can come to the field, do you want to change people?"

Wu Zhai turned his head to look at the group of monks behind him. Those young monks looked at each other, all not daring to come forward.

Wu Zhai put down his mala, his hand resting on his knee in the gesture of picking a flower and smiling, avoiding answering: "This benefactor, I see you have a connection with Buddha. Why not enter my Yuan Jue Temple to cultivate? The Dao Court is declining. Becoming a nominal disciple of the Dao Court is not as good as entering my Buddhism directly."

Zhang Li pointed at Wu Zhai's nose and began to loudly scold: "What kind of stinking dog fart are you talking!"

Wu Zhai glanced at him: "Crude and vulgar!"